absolxguardian:

permian-tropos:

interesting argument I had: people who hate kylo ren also hate calling him “ben solo” because they see this as treating him as a victim, someone not responsible for his actions. I proposed the suggestion that you can call him ben solo and still describe him as being a murderer and an authoritarian dictator. “ben solo killed han solo” for instance. but this does not sit well with people at all. this still sounds like excusing his actions. 

the names “ben” and “solo” being applied to a character do not in fact make that character less morally culpable, even if “kylo ren” is the name that this person chose to adopt when he turned to the dark side as part of a persona that was separate from his past. this is clearly a force-religious cultural practice in the gffa. but if the dark side used to be about choosing a new identity and the light side is about being your birth identity – that’s not the story after tlj. and a lot of people don’t like tlj but to that I say, what’s wrong with telling people that blood familial relations aren’t everything? 

many people who dislike kyben renlo are just as married to the idea that “ben solo”, the character of han and leia’s son, could not be a villain. the legacy names are held in such high regard that they cannot and must not be besmirched – even though “ben” is the name obi-wan adopts to live a life of grief and solitude, and “solo” is a name imposed on han by the dehumanizing naming tactics of the empire. both names mean loneliness, loss, separation from one’s family (obi-wan and the jedi, han and q’ira), and despair, caused by the war and oppressive regime

maybe it’s a perfect name for a villain to have had, even if we acknowledge the new name as what he sees himself as

I feel weird calling pre fall Kylo Ren Ben Solo, even though I’m fine calling pre fall Vader Anakin because it’s been used as a dog whistle by Reylos so much. There’s nothing really wrong with calling pre fall Kylo Ren “Ben” the same way we call pre fall Vader “Anakin.” Much less people call post fall Vader Anakin, and when I see it as such, it’s usually during ROTJ. And when it isn’t, the people who are convinced Vader’s blood makes him redeemable didn’t really have internet (because they’re George Lucas and Luke Skywalker) and it’s not really a fandom dog whistle.

But you’re right the fact that Ben Solo is a name created by the Empire makes the dog whistling even more ironic. Although it wasn’t why Han was named Solo, it’s primarily used for recruits from cultures that don’t have the same first name last name format as the Core. And even with Obi Wan using Ben during the Rako Hardeen mission is still part of some of the Jedi lying that pushed Anakin over the edge (also thinking about it, why was Dooku trying to assassinate Palpatine. I must be forgetting some part of the arc).